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free will

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1 free will on Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:34 pm

hazzmta

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if a person is placed in the EXACT same environment or situation, and the person's brain is in the EXACT same chemical/physical state, then will the brain make the same EXACT decision every time based on its physical makeup and the environment? if so, does a person really have free will?

2 Re: free will on Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:11 pm

Ima Pealover

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If the person doesn't remember the previous decisions, then I believe they will make the same decision. If they do remember the previous decisions, then they will sometimes pick different decisions because humans like variety. I do think humans have free will, but I'm not at all sure that is correct!

3 Re: free will on Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:13 pm

EccentricPhilosopher

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No, because the body is different, and that would make a difference one way or another. Like if the stomach is more empty, the brain will change to respond to hunger. If more full, maybe look around more. If the body is the same, then that is much harder to say.

4 Re: free will on Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:43 am

Aokay4me

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I think we're looking at this question backwards...free will is the choice to make a decision on your own. Therefore, it doesn't matter what you decide, as long as you are given the freedom to do so. A separate matter is the complexities of multiple unvierses...

5 Re: free will on Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:43 am

Ima Pealover

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AOkay4Me, please explain further your statement on multiple universes.

6 Re: free will on Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:54 am

hazzmta

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hmmmm let me ask a different question:

what is the difference between a human brain making a decision (free will) and a computer processor making a decision (not free will)?

7 Re: free will on Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:05 am

vicster

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We THINK the human brain has a say in its decision, and the computer is just making the decision it is programmed to make.

http://www.theknot.com/ourwedding/VictoriaClark&ToddAycock

8 Re: free will on Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:17 am

hazzmta

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but aren't both a brain and a computer simply making a decision based on predefined functions, memory, and environmental observations?

9 Re: free will on Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:41 am

vicster

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Computers don't have personalities, which factor into decision making. Computers can't be spontaneous or irrational or cautious...

http://www.theknot.com/ourwedding/VictoriaClark&ToddAycock

10 Re: free will on Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:22 am

Ima Pealover

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Someday, maybe talented programmers like EccentricPhilly will program computers to have personalities. Very Happy

11 Re: free will on Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:12 pm

vicster

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Like CP30?

http://www.theknot.com/ourwedding/VictoriaClark&ToddAycock

12 Re: free will on Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:27 pm

Ima Pealover

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C3PO is a good example. As you may recall, C3PO was made by the child Anikin Skywalker (who later changed his name to Darth Vader).

So, along with the Souls??? topic, was Anikin born evil/Sith, good/Jedi, or blank slate? Suspect

13 Re: free will on Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:36 pm

vicster

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Todd and I just started watching that whole series. I had never seen them before. We still have the last one to watch.

I think Anekin was born with a blank slate. If you recall, he was a really sweet and un-evil kid. I think his life experiences led him to evilness, including the situation with his mom and especially his love for Padme and his desire to save her life. That's why they say love can make you crazy. I think these events in combination with the fact that he had no parents and the sith lord controlling his mind ultimately created Darth Vadar.

http://www.theknot.com/ourwedding/VictoriaClark&ToddAycock

14 Re: free will on Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:43 pm

EccentricPhilosopher

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Makes sense to me.

Back to computers and personality though, how do we know personality isn't just a group of memories and their interpretations?

15 Re: free will on Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:42 pm

Ima Pealover

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Yes, maybe personalities are just a creation of our brains, and completely based in organic matter

16 Re: free will on Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:39 pm

hazzmta

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EccentricPhilosopher wrote:Makes sense to me.

Back to computers and personality though, how do we know personality isn't just a group of memories and their interpretations?

EXACTLY! and relating this back to free will, how does someone have "free" will? isn't free will just the ability to make a decision for ourselves? but isn't that decision made by our brains, and therefore not really "free"?

17 Re: free will on Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:43 pm

EccentricPhilosopher

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In that sense, maybe there is no free will.

But in another sense, a stranger one though, maybe free will does exist, but what always the makes the most sense to us even if not consciously, is the result we choose because it as that way. If we didn't have free will, would we come up with the same answers all the time? Maybe in this sense.

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